Ok, siguiendo este ultimo tramo del debate, me voy mas por lo posible y practico: Si es europeo Jas gripen 39 enchulados aalquilados y a mediano o largo plazo la adquisición del gripen NG brasileros; si es americano F-16 de segunda con avionica y sistemas de misión israelies.
Por lo que dijo Toledo en el thread CAZAS DE LA FAC no creo que revivan lo mismo que les ha pasado con el Kfir, la FAC ya se dio cuenta demasiado tarde que sostener estos cazas es inviable, le pidieron dinero al gobierno par la compra de otro modelo, pero este le pudo haber dicho "nosotros ya le inyectamos recursos para modernizar los Kfir como nos lo sugirieron ustedes mismos ¿y ahora qué?"...ya saben como esta la imagen de la FAC en estos momentos?, lo dije antes y ahora ese escándalo esta que revienta!
Eso se va a convertir tan grave que ve a empezar a participar la sociedad civil y el gobierno deberá soltar dinero si no quiere otro paro por la mala defensa, me imagino que esta va a ser la única forma de que las Fuerzas Militares se modernicen adecuadamente excepto claro la ARC que si es despierta.
lo mas probable que pase es que no pase nada todo se manejara por debajo de cuerda, le bajaran la operatividad a los Kfir hasta que llegue su tiempo de remplazo y despues lo remplazaran por F16 bien viejos que saquen del desierto de Nevada
lo mas probable que pase es que no pase nada todo se manejara por debajo de cuerda, le bajaran la operatividad a los Kfir hasta que llegue su tiempo de remplazo y despues lo remplazaran por F16 bien viejos que saquen del desierto de Nevada
Pues eso es lo comprensible que la revista SEMANA no haya tocado ese tema y ya ustedes saben por qué!
lo mas probable que pase es que no pase nada todo se manejara por debajo de cuerda, le bajaran la operatividad a los Kfir hasta que llegue su tiempo de remplazo y despues lo remplazaran por F16 bien viejos que saquen del desierto de Nevada
Pues eso es lo comprensible que la revista SEMANA no haya tocado ese tema y ya ustedes saben por qué!
Creería que es mas por carencia de un buen columnista que este empapado con los conocimientos militares y aeronáuticos que por falta de interés en sacar una noticia comprometedora con los gobiernos. Sigo diciendo que no hay una autoridad en prensa que ponga en conocimientos las carencias de las FFMM y muchos de ustedes dirán que por que no Erich ya que esta en el meollo del asunto y el sabe de lo que habla, seria muy bueno pero por el tomar esa postura critica en publico, las mismas empresas y sectores militares lo alejarían de las primicias con que se nos ve favorecido este foro por su gestión. Por eso repito ser critico en este país es muy difícil y en lo que ser critico se es mas visto como un estorbo que como un aportante.
Aparte del interés y conocimiento del tema en la prensa local también es el FAVORECIMIENTO a influencias oscuras, ya Gardeazabal lo anuncio en una columna del ADN y puso el dedo en la llaga, pero el ADN no es EL ESPECTADOR, EL TIEMPO, SEMANA, etc.
Pero a ver, no entiendo para qué se van a hacer mal vida si la FAC misma ya ha hecho público en varias ocasiones su necesidad de tener un nuevo caza, hasta con precio y todo (12 = US$ 1.600 millones) y en cada oportunidad que tienen lo recuerdan. Lo que veo es que quieren hacer pasar la compra como COMPLEMENTO del Kfir, no como su reemplazo. ¿Captan?
Así matan dos pájaros de un tiro: obtienen el caza que haga de superioridad aérea y regresan al Kfir a su función primordial de ataque a superficie y todos felices.
1600 millones de USD que van a comprar F 35, si chile compra 10 F 16 block 50/52 por 600 millones y creo que estaba incluido en la compra un tanquero, como es que piensan en 12 cazas por 1600, sale cada uno en 133 millones, los van a comprar con licencia o en verdad van a sacar de plano a los Judios, por portarse mal con los Kfir y piensan en reemplazar toda la panoplia de armas de estos F 16.
lo que podrían ofrecer los Suecos: Saab to offer Gripen C/D upgrades, pushes exports
Saab is to continue to offer upgrades to the Gripen C/D combat aircraft to maintain the type's capability out beyond the introduction into service of the latest-variant Gripen E, a company official disclosed on 10 March.
Speaking during a media tour of the company's Linköping production facility near Stockholm, Lennart Sindahl, head of the Aeronautics division at Saab, said that a series of enhancements for the Gripen C/D will be rolled out for those countries not intending to sign up for the Gripen E in the short- to medium-term, but that the overall package is not yet fully defined.
"We will continue to develop systems, such as the [Ericsson/BAE Systems] PS-05/A radar, to improve capability and to satisfy future customer needs," he said, adding: "The international users [of the Czech Republic, Hungary, South Africa, Thailand, and the UK Empire Test Pilots School] will be operating the C/D long after Sweden [has moved on to the Gripen E], and we need to look after them."
The Swedish Air Force (SwAF) is about to begin upgrading its JAS 39 Gripen C/D fleet with the MS 20 block upgrade, which will be the last before the Gripen E begins to enter service from 2018.
These block upgrades, which are rolled out about every three years, are designed to keep the Gripen at the forefront of capability without the need for in-depth modernisation work. As part of the MS 20 work, Weapon System 20 includes integration of the MBDA Meteor beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile and Boeing GBU-39 Small-Diameter Bomb; improved radar modes; a digital close air support capability; increased Link 16 connectivity; civil navigation enhancements; chemical, biological, radiological, and nuclear (CBRN) protection for the pilot; night-capable operations using the SPK 39 Modular Reconnaissance Pod II; and a ground collision avoidance system (GCAS).
With MS 20 being the last planned for the Gripen C/D aircraft and with the Gripen E being introduced at MS 21 standard, Sindahl explained that the additional Gripen C/D upgrades may be classified as MS 20++, or the like.
Separate to its proposed Gripen C/D upgrade for international users, Saab is currently converting the last of the SwAF's remaining Gripen A/B airframes into C/D-standard aircraft. It expects to keep the Gripen C/D conversion line at Linköping open until the beginning of Gripen E production in about 2018/9 (the last new-build Gripen C rolled off the production in 2012, with the completion of deliveries to South Africa). Once this conversion work is complete, the SwAF's inventory will comprise 75 single-seat Gripen C and 25 twin-seat Gripen D platforms.
Having been awarded a Gripen E serial production contract from the Swedish government in December 2013, Saab is to convert 60 of the SwAF's Gripen C platforms into the latest-variant Gripen E. The air force's Gripen Ds will remain in service until the full fleet of Gripen Es has been delivered in about 2026, by which time the SwAF will have decided whether or not to utilise them as lead-in fighter trainers for the newer-variant platform.
However, with the Gripen C and Gripen E sharing little in terms of common structures and systems, the only items likely to be cross-decked will be the windscreen and canopy, the outer elevons, the ejection-seat, the internal gun and conveyor system, and some other ancillary equipment.
The plan is that the SwAF will be left with 60 Gripen E and no Gripen C aircraft (the 15 Gripen Cs from the current inventory not included in the conversion contract will be retired) by the time the work is complete halfway through the next decade. In reality, the dearth of common parts means there will in fact still be 60 nearly complete Gripen Cs left at the end of the process, which should not require much refurbishment work to turn them into exportable aircraft. Even so, company officials noted that there will come a time in around the 2019 timeframe when export opportunities will begin to focus squarely on the Gripen E.
According to Sindahl, Saab is currently in discussions with Malaysia and has received interest in the Gripen from Botswana. Other export hopes include Belgium, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Indonesia, Latvia, Lithuania, Peru, Portugal, and the Philippines (conversations with Canada in relation to an alternative to the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter have come to nothing and been discontinued, Stindahl noted). He was unable to say at this time precisely which countries are interested in the Gripen C/D and which in the Gripen E. Saab is aiming to sell between 300 and 450 Gripen C/D/E aircraft over the next 20 years, which Sindahl said equates to approximately 10% of the accessible global market.
Saab said that, apart from being a highly capable aircraft, the Gripen's chief selling point is its affordability, in terms of development, acquisition, operation, and through-life sustainment. Speaking at the same media event, Lars Ydreskog, VP Head of Aero Operations, Aeronautics, said that the Gripen E cost 30-50% less to develop that did the Gripen C, and that the Gripen Next Generation (NG) demonstration programme had been completed at just 40% of the overall predicted cost. The head of the SwAF, Major General Micael Byden, added that the cost per flight hour of the Gripen C/D (including fuel) was a relatively low SEK48,000 (USD7,500), saying: "If the Gripen wasn't affordable, the Swedish Air Force would not be able to operate it."
Aside from further Gripen C/D upgrades and continued Gripen C/D/E export efforts, Saab officials disclosed that the first of three Gripen E prototypes is to make its maiden flight next year. The current twin-seat Gripen NG (company serial number 39-07) will continue system trials and the development of tactical systems, before being joined by the first single-seat Gripen E (39-08) in mid-2015. This aircraft will be used mainly for airframe and general flight control tests, with a second single-seat prototype (39-09) joining the programme as a tactical systems testbed in 2016. The third and final single-seat prototype (39-10) will fly as a production standard airframe in 2017.
The SwAF is set to begin receiving its Gripen E aircraft in 2018, as is the Swiss Air Force (subject to a national referendum on the subject). Brazil is due to receive the first its first aircraft within 48 months of the contract being signed. Negotiations are ongoing and are expected to be completed by the end of the year.
El general Leon dio esa cifra, pero no dijo que cantidad, asi que yo creeria que el piensa en unos 24
Pues Toledo, cuando él dio la cifra en RCN noticias de la mañana, se refirió a un escuadrón = US$ 1.600 millones. Y si la memoria no me falla, un escuadrón de cazas en la FAC es igual a 12 aviones...
Pienso, opinión personal no más, que el General León está pensando en cazas nuevos, cero kilómetros, nada de segundazos, y que vengan con todos los juguetes de una buena vez, por eso, tal vez, la cifra que da.
Aunque no me quejo si son 24 de segunda (Block 40 para arriba) bien modernizados y equipados...
Por ese precio le calculo Gripen NG, o F16V nuevecitos.
Pero esa oferta de caza europeo que no nos quieren decir pero que no le gusta a Toledo, para mi puede ser o Mirage 2000 bien ruleteado o Gripen C/D, y ya por fuera de base el Viggen o el Mirage F1, esos serían la tapa, pero no digo más porque es invocar al que sabemos...
Cada vez me sorprende mas de lo que va ser a futuro el gripen NG:
Comentarios
Claro sobre todo algo tan viejo,
Pues eso es lo comprensible que la revista SEMANA no haya tocado ese tema y ya ustedes saben por qué!
Creería que es mas por carencia de un buen columnista que este empapado con los conocimientos militares y aeronáuticos que por falta de interés en sacar una noticia comprometedora con los gobiernos. Sigo diciendo que no hay una autoridad en prensa que ponga en conocimientos las carencias de las FFMM y muchos de ustedes dirán que por que no Erich ya que esta en el meollo del asunto y el sabe de lo que habla, seria muy bueno pero por el tomar esa postura critica en publico, las mismas empresas y sectores militares lo alejarían de las primicias con que se nos ve favorecido este foro por su gestión. Por eso repito ser critico en este país es muy difícil y en lo que ser critico se es mas visto como un estorbo que como un aportante.
Así matan dos pájaros de un tiro: obtienen el caza que haga de superioridad aérea y regresan al Kfir a su función primordial de ataque a superficie y todos felices.
http://img860.imageshack.us/img860/2954/brochurecombataircrafts.jpg
Saab to offer Gripen C/D upgrades, pushes exports
Saab is to continue to offer upgrades to the Gripen C/D combat aircraft to maintain the type's capability out beyond the introduction into service of the latest-variant Gripen E, a company official disclosed on 10 March.
Speaking during a media tour of the company's Linköping production facility near Stockholm, Lennart Sindahl, head of the Aeronautics division at Saab, said that a series of enhancements for the Gripen C/D will be rolled out for those countries not intending to sign up for the Gripen E in the short- to medium-term, but that the overall package is not yet fully defined.
"We will continue to develop systems, such as the [Ericsson/BAE Systems] PS-05/A radar, to improve capability and to satisfy future customer needs," he said, adding: "The international users [of the Czech Republic, Hungary, South Africa, Thailand, and the UK Empire Test Pilots School] will be operating the C/D long after Sweden [has moved on to the Gripen E], and we need to look after them."
The Swedish Air Force (SwAF) is about to begin upgrading its JAS 39 Gripen C/D fleet with the MS 20 block upgrade, which will be the last before the Gripen E begins to enter service from 2018.
These block upgrades, which are rolled out about every three years, are designed to keep the Gripen at the forefront of capability without the need for in-depth modernisation work. As part of the MS 20 work, Weapon System 20 includes integration of the MBDA Meteor beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile and Boeing GBU-39 Small-Diameter Bomb; improved radar modes; a digital close air support capability; increased Link 16 connectivity; civil navigation enhancements; chemical, biological, radiological, and nuclear (CBRN) protection for the pilot; night-capable operations using the SPK 39 Modular Reconnaissance Pod II; and a ground collision avoidance system (GCAS).
With MS 20 being the last planned for the Gripen C/D aircraft and with the Gripen E being introduced at MS 21 standard, Sindahl explained that the additional Gripen C/D upgrades may be classified as MS 20++, or the like.
Separate to its proposed Gripen C/D upgrade for international users, Saab is currently converting the last of the SwAF's remaining Gripen A/B airframes into C/D-standard aircraft. It expects to keep the Gripen C/D conversion line at Linköping open until the beginning of Gripen E production in about 2018/9 (the last new-build Gripen C rolled off the production in 2012, with the completion of deliveries to South Africa). Once this conversion work is complete, the SwAF's inventory will comprise 75 single-seat Gripen C and 25 twin-seat Gripen D platforms.
Having been awarded a Gripen E serial production contract from the Swedish government in December 2013, Saab is to convert 60 of the SwAF's Gripen C platforms into the latest-variant Gripen E. The air force's Gripen Ds will remain in service until the full fleet of Gripen Es has been delivered in about 2026, by which time the SwAF will have decided whether or not to utilise them as lead-in fighter trainers for the newer-variant platform.
However, with the Gripen C and Gripen E sharing little in terms of common structures and systems, the only items likely to be cross-decked will be the windscreen and canopy, the outer elevons, the ejection-seat, the internal gun and conveyor system, and some other ancillary equipment.
The plan is that the SwAF will be left with 60 Gripen E and no Gripen C aircraft (the 15 Gripen Cs from the current inventory not included in the conversion contract will be retired) by the time the work is complete halfway through the next decade. In reality, the dearth of common parts means there will in fact still be 60 nearly complete Gripen Cs left at the end of the process, which should not require much refurbishment work to turn them into exportable aircraft. Even so, company officials noted that there will come a time in around the 2019 timeframe when export opportunities will begin to focus squarely on the Gripen E.
According to Sindahl, Saab is currently in discussions with Malaysia and has received interest in the Gripen from Botswana. Other export hopes include Belgium, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Indonesia, Latvia, Lithuania, Peru, Portugal, and the Philippines (conversations with Canada in relation to an alternative to the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter have come to nothing and been discontinued, Stindahl noted). He was unable to say at this time precisely which countries are interested in the Gripen C/D and which in the Gripen E. Saab is aiming to sell between 300 and 450 Gripen C/D/E aircraft over the next 20 years, which Sindahl said equates to approximately 10% of the accessible global market.
Saab said that, apart from being a highly capable aircraft, the Gripen's chief selling point is its affordability, in terms of development, acquisition, operation, and through-life sustainment. Speaking at the same media event, Lars Ydreskog, VP Head of Aero Operations, Aeronautics, said that the Gripen E cost 30-50% less to develop that did the Gripen C, and that the Gripen Next Generation (NG) demonstration programme had been completed at just 40% of the overall predicted cost. The head of the SwAF, Major General Micael Byden, added that the cost per flight hour of the Gripen C/D (including fuel) was a relatively low SEK48,000 (USD7,500), saying: "If the Gripen wasn't affordable, the Swedish Air Force would not be able to operate it."
Aside from further Gripen C/D upgrades and continued Gripen C/D/E export efforts, Saab officials disclosed that the first of three Gripen E prototypes is to make its maiden flight next year. The current twin-seat Gripen NG (company serial number 39-07) will continue system trials and the development of tactical systems, before being joined by the first single-seat Gripen E (39-08) in mid-2015. This aircraft will be used mainly for airframe and general flight control tests, with a second single-seat prototype (39-09) joining the programme as a tactical systems testbed in 2016. The third and final single-seat prototype (39-10) will fly as a production standard airframe in 2017.
The SwAF is set to begin receiving its Gripen E aircraft in 2018, as is the Swiss Air Force (subject to a national referendum on the subject). Brazil is due to receive the first its first aircraft within 48 months of the contract being signed. Negotiations are ongoing and are expected to be completed by the end of the year.
http://www.janes.com/article/35119/saab-to-offer-gripen-c-d-upgrades-pushes-exports
Pues Toledo, cuando él dio la cifra en RCN noticias de la mañana, se refirió a un escuadrón = US$ 1.600 millones. Y si la memoria no me falla, un escuadrón de cazas en la FAC es igual a 12 aviones...
Pienso, opinión personal no más, que el General León está pensando en cazas nuevos, cero kilómetros, nada de segundazos, y que vengan con todos los juguetes de una buena vez, por eso, tal vez, la cifra que da.
Aunque no me quejo si son 24 de segunda (Block 40 para arriba) bien modernizados y equipados...
Cada vez me sorprende mas de lo que va ser a futuro el gripen NG:
http://defensa.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=11983:el-gripen-ng-prueba-el-sistema-irst-skyward-g&catid=56:industria&Itemid=164
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